Episode 12

Remote Working from Mexico with Angela Papalia

Published on: 23rd June, 2021

After practising law in Ontario for 10 years, Angela Papalia decided to shift her work online and move to the warmer climes of a small town in Mexico. In this interview, she explains: 

  • what led to her to move country and modify her work offering 
  • the differences between her old life in Ontario and her new life in Mexico
  • the importance of finding a new routine when making a major life change
  • how she learned to say ‘No’, and how working less has meant achieving more
  • how she dealt with people who were not so supportive of her life choice.

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Music: Pablito's Way by Paolo Pavan

Transcript
Maribel:

Thank you very much Angela, for agreeing to participate in our podcast. When we spoke the first time I was really impressed about this huge change in your life that you decided to take. Would you like to tell us please a little bit about what your life was like before? And what was this huge change that you decided to make?

Angela:

Sure, sure. Um, thank you very much for having me, I really appreciate the invite, and the opportunity to speak with both of you. The change I made was about six months ago, when I decided to move to Mexico, while not changing anything career wise. So my life before, it was a bit of preparation for this. So my life, if we go back to 2018, 2019, was very corporate. I worked in a huge firm with multiple locations, made a lot of money, had a lot of opportunities and a lot of security. But I didn't have the opportunity to make any decisions for myself, it was a very rigid environment. The people were very nice. But there was no flexibility, that didn't work for me. So in the last week of February of 2020, I quit my job. Two weeks later, the world sort of changed. And I panicked. And my first thought was, like, ‘I wonder if they would take me back?’ When you start to think, you know, I had a house and a cottage mortgage, and you know, all of these costs. And I panicked, but only, you know, for a short period of time, and started to get going on my own, with association with some friends who I’d gone to law school with. And then in November, I took my practice remotely. And I've been working completely full time as an Ontario, a Canadian lawyer from Sayulita, Mexico. And you know what? It couldn't be better. And never, we've never been busier, which isn't always, you know, a good thing. But the question I get a lot is, how do you make it happen? How do you make it work? Sayulita is a surf town, a lot of people come here to surf, and has a huge yoga, meditation community. People come here for that practice. And it's a wonderful place. And I admit at the beginning, it was hard to be motivated in order to keep everything working from my view, and to maintain some type of routine. So I imposed on myself I would have to do the same. Because if I, you know, spent my mornings at the beach next thing we know it was noon, no work was ever going to get done. So admittedly, it did take a little while to bring that into play. But once I did, I've now been here for four and a half months. And it's like home, it's completely routine. Yeah, and it's going wonderfully.

Helen:

Yeah, I'm just looking at your background there and the reflection in the window. Obviously, you're sitting on your balcony here. And it's March, and oh, you're turning around, absolutely beautiful. And we can hear the sound of the birds. And it's March and you're sitting in just a vest top there, so it's obviously the right type of climate for you as well. You said you moved from Ontario, so there’s a big difference coming from Ontario to Mexico? So what made you choose Mexico?

Angela:

A very wonderful person. So I came at the beginning of January 2020. I signed up for... my yoga teacher from home runs a couple of retreats down here every year. And so I came. There were 22 girls signed up for a one week yoga-surf retreat, in the middle of November, and the other 21 canceled. And so I came by myself with my instructor who's here, and it's fun, she has become a very, very good friend. And I liked it so much. So I stayed.

Helen:

Fantastic. What are the big differences? So you said the routine was something and we just spoke earlier that you were already up at five o'clock this morning. Was that a routine that you used to do as well?

Angela:

It was. At home I would get up around five o'clock. And my gym opened at 5:15. So I would go there until about 6:30. I would come home, I would take my dog to the dog park because he had a playgroup around 7:30 that he loved. I would sometimes, if I had 15 minutes, rush to the grocery store and pick up some food in between there. I would drop off my dog at my father's house or my parents’ house where my dad would watch him while I was at work and go to the office, park, walk to the office, go in, start chaos, and then come out at some point, later in the day, go pick up the dog, come home, and the same as everyone else, clean my house, make dinner, all of these things, and then go to bed exhausted at, you know, eight, nine o'clock and then get up at 10 to five and go to the gym again.

Helen:

At what point, did you decide that this was not the life that you wanted?

Angela:

So I've been a lawyer now, January 27th was my 10 year anniversary. And I decided this wasn't the life I wanted about a year before the first day I became a lawyer. So about 11 years ago, I decided this is not the life I wanted. And I knew that, it took me a bit longer to get here than I had hoped it would. But, um, I articled in downtown Toronto, and it was terrible. And there were, you know, very, very late nights, I remember being at the office at 11 o'clock at night and all of these things. And so I left Toronto and moved to Hamilton, which is where I'm from. I moved back to Hamilton to practice for five years, I had a wonderful job. But I remember then, and I had a great mentor who talked to me and said, ‘you know, your first five years are going to be difficult, you're going to feel like you're being pulled in all different directions. But you have to learn what you don't know.’ We had a very general practice. And he taught me I'm going to, you know, ‘you're going to learn a bit of everything. And then you're going to decide what you want to focus on.’ So at least when the other points come up, you know, this is not an area I'm an expert in, who do I talk to? Who do I refer this to? Who do I consult with? So you don't get yourself or your clients in trouble. But he said, you know, the first five years are going to be difficult, but you're really going to enjoy it, and appreciate the fact that you did it later on. So it's always been a bit of a, I guess, back of the mind, a viewpoint and you got dragged in, you know, I stayed at every job I've ever had probably for about a year too long. Making the move can be, you know, scary and difficult, especially, I mean, there was a point when we made really good money. So walking away from that. You're like, ‘oh my god, I'm never gonna have any more clients. No one's ever gonna hire me anymore. Where am I going to find work? What's gonna go on?’ And I always had this cushion number in my head, ‘hey, when I get to x, I will step back when I get to x.’ And then you're like, well, maybe x needs to be xy. And then you're like, well, you get invested. Well, I get invested with my clients, as we all do, and whatever course we take, it’s like, well, I can't leave now. I'm 80% into this. And you know, so and so needs me. And I really want to see how this turns out. If someone else does it, they might mess it up. I might mess it up, too, but at least that's my own fault. So last year, admittedly, just made it a whole lot easier. Because after going for six months, maybe, working from my dining room table, it was a lot easier to pull the trigger and say, ‘well, if I could do my dining room table’. I came down here, looked into the WiFi to make sure we had some, you know, good signals, and got an apartment with a self dedicated modem system. So that wouldn't be a concern as much. It still happens. A couple of weeks ago, the water truck took out some power lines down the street from my house. And we all just said ‘oh, well, it's Mexico, what are you going to do? Sorry about that.’ So there have been some glitches. But overall, I wouldn't change it for anything.

Maribel:

Angela, I wonder before you jump into the cold water or well, it's Mexico, warm water, before you make that huge change, and you had been dragging on this moment, I mean, obviously, you said you knew pretty early, this is not what I want to do. Nonetheless, something kept you going at it. And I'm so interested in those moments that we have, when our mind shifts, they might just be one second, but they feel like an eternity. Can you tell me if you had, and how it was, that moment in which you just realized, that's it, I can't do this anymore.

Angela:

Yes. There was a very specific meeting I had at work, February of 2019. And I remember, it was with some management at my office. And my understanding of the meeting was it was meant to be, you know, where do you see yourself here in a couple of years? How do you see yourself developing? And I think everyone did go into it with the best of intentions. The problem is I didn't feel through it at any point that anything I said mattered. It was, you know, which way do you want to develop? And I said, Well, I think that, you know, the following would work and this is why I think so and I felt very brushed aside. It was ‘oh, okay, great. Yep, that's okay. But that's not what we see. So instead, we're going to do this.’ So I said to myself, well, why are you asking me these questions if what my answer is doesn't matter unless it's your answer? So I remember walking back to the office, and I said to myself, ‘if this is your life in a year, I'm very disappointed in you.’ I guess, I don't know if that was a bit of a timeline that I put on it, but it seemed to work. I don't know. It did, it seemed to work. So I'm having a moment here. It was kind of an emotional time. I remember actually, the paper that I was looking at at the time, and I was like, ‘if this is your life a year from now, you failed yourself.’ I had a great start. Like, I went to law school in Australia, I did an internship in Malaysia when I was done, I have always loved traveling, I backpacked around Europe for six months or so, the same thing in Southeast Asia. And all of this was in my 20s. And when I think of all the great people that I met, and the best experiences I've ever had, it's because I guess in my 20s, I wasn't scared. It was great, let's go do it! I mean, I moved to Australia, I didn't even pack until the day before. Whereas now if I want to do something, there's a spreadsheet and charts. And I, you know, it's become more organized, which has been necessary in some ways, but almost more hesitant that it's necessary. So I guess I was lucky, I was able to look at the experiences I had back then. And find a way that I could merge them because I love being a lawyer, I love my practice, I wouldn't want to be living here without any type of structure, I just don't think it would be good for me. Going back to the routine, it's necessary. Admittedly, if I had nothing to do here, tequila on the beach by two o'clock would become very easy. You know, it's fine once in a while, it's not fine every day. So being in school, and having work and a bit of the structure. it's just something I know that works for me. I mean, I've kept it here. So I wake up in the morning here, and I go to the gym before I start my day. These are things that make me happy. So it's been nice to find the grind of work doesn't have to be such a grind. I like what I do now. I space out my days more or, you know, I take a walk and go to the beach about two or three o'clock in the afternoon when I start to feel unfocused or acknowledge that that's what I want to do. That's what I'm going to do. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Helen:

I'd like to go back, Angela, to something that you said before, the reasons that you didn't give it up when you did. And you said the money was good. You mentioned that when I get to x, I’ll leave and then x became xy, and so on. So there was the money. And then you got so invested in the clients that you said that you didn't want to leave them. And then you also thought, well, nobody's gonna do this job as good as I can. So all of these things that were coming up for you, particularly about the clients about this, you know, I'm invested in them, and no one can do it as well as I can. How did you overcome those fears, or those concerns that were coming up for you?

Angela:

The client part, funny enough, was actually the easiest part. Because when I left, the way that law practice works, I guess in our bar, is when you leave and you advise a client that you're leaving a firm, it's the client’s choice on whether they want to stay with the firm or they want to come with you. Every single client that I told I was leaving said we want to come with you. So that was wonderful. Thinking about it, I was so happy. I felt like I knew that I had a good rapport with some of them. But some who had been newer clients, and, you know, clients who had maybe a relationship with other lawyers at my firm, just said, No, we're good, we're gonna come, you know, send us whatever direction you need us to sign. So, oddly enough, that part was the easiest, because they all came. The money part, I just started to realize it doesn't matter. I will work in some form for the rest of my life. I'm not someone that wants to retire at a certain age and sit around and do crossword puzzles, I definitely want to work less. And I have a whole bunch of jobs, which are possibly law based, just maybe in a different form, that I even now consider to be my retirement jobs. But I don't have children. So it's easier to walk away there. Because if I crash and burn, it's only you know, myself that I have to worry about. I come from a really great family. So they've always said, well, you can come back here and live with us, like Thanks, Mom and Dad, but I'm not gonna do that. Anyway, so I had this support around me and I recognized it and I was just able to say, you know what, this is this is it because if it's not now it's going to be never because it was like, well, X to me when I think maybe it's not big enough of a cushion now, if you had asked me 10 years ago, when I was $120,000 in debt coming out of law school, I would have thought X was almost unattainable. And the fact that you're already there, you just have to pull the trigger at some point. Was there a moment that made me do it? No, I don't know. I'm gonna go back and thank Kerry for bringing me here in November. And I just got it here and I liked it. And it felt right.

Maribel:

So what has become important to you now?

Angela:

I'm very rarely stressed. I sleep like a baby, which I didn't do very well before. I used to wake up a lot in the middle of the night and I had a notepad next to my bed where I put a notation date on that I might miss. That notepad is still around here, but it's not in my bedroom anymore. Because I sleep through the night. And then in the morning, a couple times a week, I'll have my coffee and sit down with it and sort of do an overview and be like, Okay, what do you need to get done, you know, to make sure that you can still service your clients properly. And sleeping well is incredible. I always said, I always used to fall asleep well, but I don't re-fall asleep well, so if I wake up at any point in the middle of the night, it would take hours to get back to sleep. And that's not the case anymore. And it happened almost instantly after I got here.

Helen:

I'm curious, Angela, as to what's the biggest thing that you've learned about yourself, then say in the past, say, three or four years since you decided to start making the change?

Angela:

I don't know. I think that's still a work in progress. This is gonna sound cliche, because a lot of people… but I’ve become very good at saying ‘No, I'm not doing that.’ ‘I don't want to’ is a good enough answer. I don't feel like it. I'm not in the mood right now. And to just distinguish everything that, you know, I'm asked to do. I used to refer to myself as a problem broker. Because you'd constantly have clients and my parents, and maybe about a month or so ago, I was here and I had a friend reach out to me, and she was talking about something. And I told her, I was like, I can't be that person for you right now. I can't relate whatsoever to what you're saying. I'm your friend, you'll always be my friend, I'll support you. But I can't be that person that you need right now. You have a whole great circle, you have a husband, you have friends you have... I'm sorry, you're gonna have to ask one of them. Because my environment is just so different: complaining about lineups at Costco. And that wasn't what she was talking about. But that sort of, you know, it's just it's so different from where I am right now. And I've learned not only to accept, but to thrive in saying, Sorry, I'm not doing that right now. Uh uh, I'm not your person, you need to ask someone else.

Helen:

How does that make you feel, Angela?

Angela:

Wonderful. Wonderful.

Helen:

I can see a big smile on your face right now.

Maribel:

It sounds like a huge relief to say that and not second guess, should I be saying this?

Angela:

Exactly. And yes, not second guess. Maybe I'm becoming too comfortable with it. But I also noticed, it allows me to complete the projects that I am doing better. So, as opposed to doing nine things today, I have two things I need to do. And I'm going to sit down after this and focus on one. And then I have a meeting with that client at about five o'clock this evening to go over it. And by that time, I'm gonna have a really good project for him to be looking at and reviewing and will be much closer to finalizing. And I guess learn to go back to something I was told years ago. Because I'm focusing on the one thing and I'll get the project done, it'll be done. It won't be partially done. It won't be what is the minimum amount I need to get done to put the ball back in someone else's court. Okay, so I'm not just going to answer the preliminary question on this, I'm going to answer the preliminary question, I'm going to do the research, I'm going to provide the suggestions. And I'm gonna give a comprehensive response, as opposed to just doing what's good enough for now, because I have too many other projects. And I think in the long run, it saves a whole lot of time, it services my clients better, it makes me feel better, it'll just be a better job. Because there's not only going to be, you know, maybe two or three touches on this project, as opposed to 10. Because it'll come back and forth so many times with multiple edits, like I'm going to put forward something that I think is pretty close to final right at the beginning. And that makes me feel better too, one of my early mentors said you have to feel powerful in whatever you're doing. You know, don't shoot from the hip. Don't just just start but go back, do the research, build the foundation, understand it like you can teach it, that's when you know it's going to be something great. And to do that for a lesser number of clients, as opposed to a more superficial job, not just for clients, but for friends, for myself, for everything else, I think is a far better approach.

Maribel:

That seems like saying No to many things, all these things that people are asking you and showing your boundaries is allowing you to focus on the things that are important to you.

Angela:

Definitely. And it was never good at that before. I'm the oldest child of three. So if you, you know, you look at the psychology of oldest child, middle child, younger child, I was definitely an oldest child personality. I took on problems that were not my problems. So now I'm really not doing that anymore. I'm also saying No to ones that could be my problems, just because it's not what I want to be doing right now. And being really okay with it. Like, actually talking to both of you is wonderful now. I didn't realize how okay I'm with it, or even the extent that it's made me happier, I think until we've talked through this, literally right now.

Helen:

I'm wondering if you, did you speak to anybody about this in any kind of depth before you came here? Or can you talk us through the process of what was going on in you to decide to move? I mean, you said, Yeah, I came, and I loved it, and I just moved here. But there must have been more, or was there more than that, or not?

Angela:

You know, what? Not really, I talked to some friends about it. And I had very, very mixed reviews. Some were supportive, some said, Hey, great. Sounds great. We'll come visit. We'll miss you and we'll see you in a couple months. A few others were, well, what's this gonna do for your..., what's this gonna do to your career? How is this gonna hurt you? How is this going to...? Really Mexico? Is it safe? I don't know, Angela, what do you think? And that wasn't just my mother, that was some of my girlfriends. There was a lot all across the board. The ones that were not supportive, some of them have come around. There's still one or two that think I'm stretching it out a little bit longer. Like every time you give us an end date, it keeps getting pushed back. It's like, yeah, it's still getting pushed back. But even they're starting to understand, because I guess I can say something like, ‘Listen, it's been four months, and I'm doing it. What other evidence do you need that my decision was the right decision for me?’ I've put it into practice. It's been a fair enough amount of time, even though it still feels like I almost just got here. And when we really talked it out, she was like, well, I needed you here. I can't make my life decisions on what you need. What about if I said, I need you here? Some of the people I have met here are incredible. Beyond incredible. The myriad of personalities is completely outstanding. I went for a walk last night. One of the things I think to myself is the people I've met, and by looking at them, what I would have assumed that they were are the absolute opposite of what they are once I start talking to them. And it's been such an eye opening experience. I'm getting to know people, and just sitting and listening. Maybe I used to talk too much. I don't know, but I love the people I'm meeting and what I'm hearing about. And it's a really unique town. And it seems to attract a lot of very eclectic people. My friend came over yesterday, here's a great story. She called me and left me a message about this time yesterday morning. It's nine o'clock here right now. And she left me a message and said, ‘Well, I'm walking into town. And there are two dogs following me. And I think they need to go to the vet. But I have to work for the next few hours and I'm not sure what to do with them. And oh my god, hold on. Wait, wait, wait, they're chasing a rooster. I have to go get them off the road.’ And I hear the roosters in the background on this message. And then she said, ‘Well, can I bring them to your house?’ Because I know I'm a dog lover, I have my dogs’ paws tattooed on my back. And they're such, my babies. She said, 'Can I bring them to your house for the day? And then when I'm done working a few hours, we'll take them to the vet.’ And I was like, Sure, do that. So I fed them, they slept on my couch, tried to borrow a golf cart, because you know, the vet’s on the other side of town, I wasn't sure if they would follow us. So that was our day. And she says to me, ‘’You know what I love about this place?’ And she said this before, ‘You leave your house and you never ever, ever know what's going to happen.’ I’ve left my house to go to the corner store and ended up dancing on the beach for four hours because I found a DJ. You know, it's just such a great place for that. I think I'm surprised more often than I’m not when I leave the house. So, I went off on a tangent there, I think I even forgot your question.

Helen:

No, no, that sounds very different to the routine that you were describing in Ontario at the beginning of this call.

Angela:

Very different. And then just managed to keep it a little bit organized enough. Okay, well, I guess I did go to a dance party all day. So I have to come back and, you know, work a little bit later tonight. But I think that's something that we've all benefited from over the last year, that nine to five is not nine to five, I have six hours of work to do at some point today. And it will happen either when I am prepared to do it, in whatever increments work best for me. And that's the flexibility. I had a talk with a colleague of mine a couple of weeks ago, and he was quite upset. He was, like ‘Why are my clients emailing me at 10 o'clock at night?’ And I said, ‘Well, just because that's when they're asking you doesn't mean that's when you have to answer, just let it go. They're doing that because I don't know, maybe they were teaching their kids during the day, and they're not working during the day, they're working in the evening and that's their schedule. The input doesn't have to dictate the output, especially in terms of timing. So let them ask your question and you answer it when you answer it, you know, reasonably.’ That just feels it's almost scary to say it almost feels like a normal reaction now, because I used to be the person, the second the emails came in, I felt like I had to deal with it right away. One, I was afraid that I would miss it, I would forget it, that they would become overwhelming because they would start piling up. So it was just, I felt like I was constantly playing defense just to like, divert the questions. And it was, it was really important that I was, I mean, sometimes timing can be important to people. I have clients that are small business owners, and some of their questions are, you know, they feel very important to them. And they may be time sensitive. But not everything is.

Maribel:

It seems to me that you have slowed down a lot.

Angela:

I have slowed down a lot. But I'm still as productive, which I'm not sure how, but I am.

Maribel:

Isn't that great?

Angela:

It is wonderful. Like, that I'm a lot happier now. Yeah, I am a lot happier now.

Maribel:

Are you proud of yourself now?

Angela:

Yes. Thank you for asking me that. I'm very, very proud of myself. I'm proud of myself, for not being too scared to do it. Being scared is okay. And I was scared a little bit once in a while. But I wasn't too scared to do it. I was too scared to stay. I think this can go back to one of the last questions. You asked me, you know, was there a moment? Last November, right before I came here, I will admit there was something on the horizon about taking advantage of the COVID year, the courts being closed for, you know, a year, maybe an extra year whatever, of taking it or being remote. And one of the things I said to myself, I was standing in my kitchen. And I said, it's too same. Being here is too same. I'd been living in the house I was in for three years. And I loved it when I moved in. I loved my neighborhood, I still do. I had wonderful people, I remember standing in the kitchen, I was like, I need to change something, this is too same. And I did.

Maribel:

Fantastic. Angela. Our podcast is called Audaciousness. And the audacious part relates to having the audacity to come up with such a goal or transformation in the first place. And the word Ness describes a spit of land that juts out into the sea. So in other words, it's kind of like solid ground surrounded by constant waves and wind coming at you. So for us, Audaciousness means having a solid grounding on which to practice your audacity. So our question is, while you were pursuing your goal, or you still are, where did you get the solid grounding to continue while everything else was in motion? How did you stay grounded in your vision, despite what life was throwing at you?

Angela:

Exercise is extremely important to me. I've told myself a lot of times, any good day starts with a good workout. As long as I exercise, I can handle anything, everything, you know, everything else can come into place. And if something doesn't come into place, I can accept it, I can deal with it, I can address it, I can manage it in the best way possible. My dad was an athlete, he had us in sports since we were very little. I remember being a kid and him coming into the living room. And he would just turn off the TV and be like, go outside. What? Like, what dad I was watching that. He's like, move, go do something. That's always been something I have come back to. So I kept that while I was at home but it sounds good. That's what gives me my confidence. Like you mentioned, right? I go to the gym in the mornings. That's what gives me confidence and that sets me up for the rest of the day. Solid grounding also comes from like I said, I have a great family. My mom and my dad and my sister and brother are excellent. They're supportive. We're all wonderfully close. I love them all very much and I know that if it gets, it did get to the point where it was too much here. And I called him like, you know, coming home, someone's got to come get me. That extra, that cushion is all gone, I spent all my money, I need you to send me a plane ticket. No matter what it was, I know that they're there. That's golden. I really appreciate it. I'm very appreciative of that because I know that not everyone is that fortunate. Educational background, I mean, when I was about, I would have been doing my undergraduate degree at the time, and I wasn't sure what I wanted to do with life, still probably not really sure what I'm gonna do with it. But um, I was doing landscaping for a summer job for this man who is a lawyer, and he was a really, really nice guy. And he was asking me, he's like, you know, what are you going to do? After undergrad? You know, what is it you want to do? And I told him, I said, Well, I'm debating on going to law school, I am looking at LSATs. But I'm just not really sure if I want to be a lawyer. And he said, You know what, Angela, do it. He said. ‘For any other reason that it's an incredible degree, learning experience. And it’s one of the most transferable degrees.’ And I mean, this is going back, it would have been maybe 2003, 2004. It's one of the most transferable degrees, he said you look at people in a lot of other positions. A lot of them were lawyers who at least went to law school at one point, and had that education. So if you told me, you may want to be a writer. Well, it's not a bad way to start. So having that, having something I knew I could always fall back on, made the decision a lot easier. And I don't even know if it was an easy decision. Maybe it wasn't great. Maybe it's just been a point I was so frustrated with my life. I said, I don't care. I'm just not doing this anymore. If I crash and burn, oh, well, I'll go home and sleep in my parent's spare bedroom. And I'll figure out what you know, the next round is, but I was just so stressed and running around and unhappy that I was like, something's got to change. It felt like I failed myself. So yeah, something had to change. And so I did.

Maribel:

Beautiful. Thanks very much for sharing this time with us and all the ideas and transformations. I've enjoyed speaking very much with you, Angela. Thank you.

Helen:

Thank you, Angela.

Angela:

Thank you both very much for having me, for allowing me to talk this out. Like I said there were a few moments. I don't think I've had this conversation so thoroughly with myself or with anyone else. Thank you for that opportunity. I really, really appreciate it.

Helen:

You've probably got a lot to think about today then. This has been another good start to your day, the exercise and then this, you know. Why did you make the move that you did?

Angela:

I’m going to go get a coffee and take a walk on a beach now and continue to reflect. I spend too much time in my own head, which is where I spend most of my time.

Helen:

What a transformation. It looks absolutely beautiful there and you look radiant, I have to say, I mean obviously I didn't know you before, but you look like you're really really enjoying life.

Maribel:

Absolutely, yeah.

Angela:

Very much. Yes. Thank you so much, both of you, right. Like again, I really appreciate this opportunity.

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About the Podcast

AudaciousNess
A solid grounding on which to practice your audacity.
AudaciousNess showcases individuals who have set themselves bold, audacious goals and have worked to achieve them. Our purpose is to inspire people to act with the courage to create a positive impact in the world.

Through interviewing 'regular people' about their audacious goals, we highlight the fact that role models are everywhere. Each and every one of us can have an impact in some way. Our goal is to enable a courageous community that honours their genius and lives their calling.

The name 'AudaciousNess' has two components: audacious, meaning 'bold', and ness, meaning 'a strip of land projecting into a body of water'. We believe having a solid grounding on which to practice your audacity is crucial, or, in the words of the great philosopher king Marcus Aurelius (Meditations, 4.49):

"Be like the promontory against which the waves continually break, but it stands firm and tames the fury of the water around it."

About your hosts

Maribel Ortega

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I help women find their worth and be confident so that they can use their voice, speak up, take new opportunities and ultimately lead fulfilled lives.

Helen Strong

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I run an eco-friendly, vegan B&B in the Outer Hebrides, Scotland. This is just one of the many audacious goals I've pursued in my lifetime.